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with time and experience, whether you understand the science or not.

When you have a growth mindset, you recognize that your brain and your skills and your experiences, they grow into your adulthood. You know that the effort that you put in is what determines your success. And so you just put in more time and effort. If you need to achieve something with a growth mindset, getting less than a perfect grade may be disappointing. But it’s not going to break you in half. What you realize is, oh, obviously, I didn’t study hard enough.

I guess I better study hard enough next time because it’s not about your skills or your talent. It’s about how much work you put in. In order to develop a growth mindset, you’ve got to prioritize learning over seeking approval. You’ve got to prioritize growing over perfecting. You’ve got to prioritize growing over succeeding. You’ve got to prioritize trying over being perfect. Focus on the process instead of the result. And if you’re a parent, you’ve got to reward the effort and the actions, not the traits.

What the heck does it mean? It means tell your kid great job. I see you’re working really hard. Don’t say, oh, you’re so smart. Good job on that grade. Reward the effort. People with a fixed mindset attempt to stay in control by not trying. The second you feel out of control, you start to assume or you tell yourself. I don’t know what to do. I’m just not smart enough. And the key is to consistently remind yourself, if I just try, I will gain control.

If I just try, I will learn something. If I just try. I’ll improve. If I just try. I’ll get a little closer. If I work a little harder, I’ll gain control. You know, Michael Jordan’s a really good example of someone with a growth mindset. Arguably one of the best basketball players of all time, the fourth highest score in the league’s history. He may be a household name now. Did you know that Michael Jordan failed to make his high school varsity basketball team when he tried out, failed to make it?

The coach told him he wasn’t tall enough. Michael Jordan went home that afternoon and cried. Now, you don’t have any control over your height unless you’re wearing high heels. You know what I’m saying? And you can’t play basketball in high heels, at least not very well.

Do you know how many people stop playing a sport, something they love because they got cut from a team? That one moment could have had Michael Jordan say, OK, I’m done. I’m not tall enough. I’m not good enough. Career’s over. But you know what he did? He had a growth mindset. This amazing. He went and practiced every single day to get ready for next year’s tryouts. And he practiced even harder and he didn’t quit.

That is a growth mindset. And you know what his mother told him? She didn’t say, oh, you’re right, maybe you’ll grow next year, which, by the way, is not in your control. She said you got to work hard. Do. You got to practice more. You’ve got to put in the effort. Jordan took the advice he put in the time he put in the sweat. And here’s the kicker. What he didn’t know at the time was that the coaches didn’t choose him because he was a sophomore.

Jordan wouldn’t have even seen much playing time on varsity team. They wanted him to get more time on the court to develop the skills. That’s why they cut him. So he’d actually play more. What if he quit because he perceived it was a failure to not make the team think of how many people quit. Think of how many people could have become what they dreamt of, but they didn’t because they had a fixed mindset. They didn’t think they have the talent.

Think of all the potential athletes and artists and musicians and entrepreneurs who quit before they put in the effort. Yeah. I kept practicing. It’s one of the hardest working players during his time in the NBA. Years later, he’s remembered for the legend that he is holding the NBA record for the highest season, scoring average, earning 14 awards among many highly acclaimed accolades. Jordan has gone on to use his growth mindset and other challenges of his life, even after his NBA career ended.

He uses the pain of rejection to drive him to work harder. You know, it’s interesting. Before I jumped in the booth to talk to you, I was watching a commercial and it was some from, I think, 2012 with Michael Jordan. And there’s a quote in it. And you know what it said. The reason why I’m successful is because of failure. Failure is the reason for my success. You see, he understands that the more you try, the more likely you’re going to fail.

But success is a numbers game. You’ve got to try over and over and over and over again, which comes back to the growth mindset. It’s not about how athletic you are. It’s about how hard you work. And if you’re sitting there and you’re bummed out because you realize, oh, my God, I got cut from my high school soccer team that I never played again. Don’t let that happen to you moving forward. You can achieve anything through work and effort and you can change your mindset when you start to tell yourself it’s all about trying.

If I don’t get what I want this time, work a little harder, that’s all. What’s the message in the mess? How do I take what I just learned in this rejection and then go and work harder? So the first thing you need to do, which Dweck discovered in a research on creating a growth mindset, is the importance of hearing the fixed mindset voice in your head. Now, for many people, Heather included, they didn’t even know they had a fixed mindset.

So here are some real telltale things that people say if they have a fixed mindset. Are you sure you can do that? And what if you’re not talented? Why do you fail? I mean, you’d be failure. People will laugh at you for thinking you head down if you don’t try. You can protect yourself. This would have been a snap if you really did have talent. It’s not too late to quit. If you just make an excuse, you can keep yourself from looking like a loser if you fail.

You’re going to show the world what a failure you are. These are hallmark fixed mindset thoughts. I want you to become aware of these thoughts and notice them if they come up. The second thing you need to do is recognize you got a choice when you face criticism, setback, failure, whatever. Realize that you can choose how you want to view it. Do you want to put on the negative glasses and quit? Or do you want to basically say to yourself, oh, I guess it didn’t work hard enough time to try a new strategy.

The third thing you can do when the voices in your head turn to the fixed mindset is talkbacks is a pretend you’re me. When the fixed mindset says, are you sure you can do that? Maybe you don’t own the term and maybe you’re not as good. You think the answer is no, I’m not sure I can do it, but I think I can learn with time and effort. The fixed mindset. What if you fail? The whole world’s gonna know you’re a failure, too.

Michael Jordan got cut from his high school basketball team. Every successful person had failures. When the fixed mindset says this would have been a snap if you had the talent, you know, you say back you’re wrong. A science wasn’t easy for Thomas Edison. And look what he accomplished. They just put in the effort. Look, when you hear the voices in your head, respond right away. And over time, as you recognize that fixed negative mindset coming out, you just talk and slap it back.

You got that. And you’re going to find it’s easier to take action because I want you to focus on trying. I want you to cultivate a growth mindset because you deserve to. And having a growth mindset makes achieving your dreams and taking control of your life a heck of a lot easier. Because you know what?

It’s not about talent. It’s not. It’s about how much work you put in. So now that you’ve learned about fixed mindsets, let’s talk about another thing that can help you take control over your life. If you want control, expect to hear no. OK. You’re going to have to be like an annoying teenager asking for the keys to the family car. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. And one Saturday night, suddenly your parents say, yes, you have to expect the no.

You’ve got to fundamentally change your relationship to know. Heather was told no by one person about her business and it crushed her. Do remember that story where she wrote the business plan for her dress business and she went to somebody in the fashion industry and the woman didn’t like it. Here she is telling the story. I met with this woman and she spent the hour telling me her story, her salary, how hard it is in the business. And then if my idea was a good idea, would have been done before.

OK. And I left that meeting feeling crushed, but also like, fuck you, I’m gonna do it anyway.

Are you gonna prove you wrong? And what happened? And any time I take a step towards making it happen in my head, it my head tells me this is gonna fail. This is a dumb idea because starting a fashion business is incredibly hard. And the chances of you making it are incredibly slim. Did you hear the fixed mindset where she said, anytime I take a step toward making it happen in my head, my head tells me this is going to fail?

This is a dumb idea.

That is a fixed mindset right there. You’ve got to smash that with a hammer right now. And let me tell you some. You know, that lady, she did Heather a favor. And let me tell you why she’s right. It is incredibly hard to start a business and the chances are incredibly slim. That’s true. And you want to know why? The chances are incredibly slim.

Everybody gives up. Everybody gives up. You want to know the secret to success. Keep trying. It’s really that simple. Keep trying. It’s slim because everybody chickens out. Everybody gets paralyzed by fear. Everybody has a fixed mindset. The people that are successful and there’s only a few of them in every single niche business are the ones that keep showing up. And that’s gonna be true for you, too. A thousand percent.

It was true for Michael Jordan. It’s gonna be true for you. It’s gonna be true in anything that you want to succeed in. So not only expect to hear a no embrace it. You know, I saw this incredible thing from Kevin Hart, the comedian, a couple days ago. He’s out doing a promo for one of his new movies. And he was talking about at a high school. The reason why he’s successful. I loved this video so much.

And what he told this group of high schoolers is he said he is successful because he did something that most comics won’t do. He heard three thousand six hundred and seven no’s and he kept showing up. He started expecting a no. It became like a joke and he kept showing up for auditions. Anyway, that’s the game, folks. That’s the game. The game of being a successful comedian is not standing onstage and telling jokes. It’s facing rejection.

The game of launching a successful business in the fashion industry is not designing dresses. It’s facing rejection. Everybody wants to jump to the end of the damn race. What nobody understands about being successful in any business is that you don’t earn the right to success without at least putting in 10 years of hard work and struggle and hearing 3000 knows that’s the game. It doesn’t matter how smart or talented or what a seamstress or a ball dunker or a joke teller you are.

It doesn’t matter because if you don’t step into the game, you’re not going to win it. And the game is not designing dresses. The game is showing up. The game is knowing. You will hear, know and showing up again and again and again and knowing you might get cut from six teams and you might hear 67 people in the fashion business tell, you know, the game is showing up and facing rejection. It’s a numbers game. And the question is, once you get told no.

Do you have a growth mindset? Can you say, OK, there’s my now, what did I learn from this? All right. Five, four, three, two, one. Let’s go next. Looks like I got to work a little bit harder. Looks like I’m on track to beat Kevin Hart’s record of three thousand six hundred and seven knows. I’m going to go for three thousand six hundred and eight because the one thing I do have control over is whether or not I continue to show up.

Period. End of story. If you’re focused on the no, you can’t control the no or the yes. You can only control your effort. And guess what? That’s good news because you can keep showing up. Look, you can’t control whether or not people are gonna say, yes, we’re going to say no. But you can control the effort. You can control whether you show up again and again and again and again. And if you keep showing up again and again and again and again, eventually, eventually you’re going to get what you want.

The person who wins in this game is the one that shows up one more time than the person who just quit. And you can decide to be that person. Look, I get it. You don’t want to hear the nose. I get it. You want to be perfect. There is no such thing as perfect. The only thing you have in this world is your willingness to try. And you are a thousand percent in control of that and you better get comfortable with it.

Now, I want to talk about the final away. Please stop living the latter life. You know, people used to say you got to climb the ladder of success. You know, I think that image screwed up a lot of us because you begin to think that there is this certain linear step by step the fine sequential path that will lead you to happiness. And you know what? Heather’s living the latter life. She’s bought into the myth that if you’d just follow the order of what you’re supposed to do, you’ve got to get the good grades and you get a good college.

Then got to get a good job. Then you get a nice guy or gal and then you get married and then you buy a house and then you have some kids and you get the promotion and then you’ll be happy. And, you know, here’s the thing. She followed that advice, but she isn’t happy now. And she’s still stuck in the latter mentality. She thinks, oh, I’ll be happy when I get the next rung of the ladder.

But each time she hits another road, she still feels empty. That’s because climbing the ladder doesn’t make you happy. Climbing the ladder, thinking it’s about the next promotion or the bigger house or the kitchen renovation or the nicer car, the different person. You’re going to whatever the hell it is. It only gives you a fake sense of control. And by the way, you want to hear what it sounds like to live a latter life. This is how Heather described it.

And then you get to that point and then it it doesn’t stop. It’s just. What’s the next? And that’s happening in my career where I think, let me get this promotion and then I’ll be happy and I get the promotion. And then I think but I’m not happy. So now I have to get to the next one. So why do we climb the ladder? Because as you climb each rung, you think it’s giving you control. You think that if you just focus on the next thing, that’ll be happy.

If I go to school, if I get a job. If I do this. I do that if I have the perfect rule of law. But it is work that way. Heather lives as if there’s something missing in her life.

And if she could just climb to the next wrong, then she’ll be happy. So she gets the promotion that she wanted and she thinks that’ll make her happy. But it doesn’t. And she doesn’t know why she’s not happy, even though she’s done, quote everything right. What she has, she’s successful. She’s about to get married. She’s in great shape. She’s got money in the bank. And look, if you went to college and then got a job and then got a better job.

Check, check, check, check, check, check the boxes. Isn’t it interesting? It doesn’t guarantee happiness. Even though you thought those things, if you controlled them, that would make you happy. This is what we do to seek control, we stack up the things we’re supposed to do to achieve and then we achieve them and then we don’t feel happier, we don’t feel like we’re in control anymore because, my God, that didn’t make me happy.

So now what do I do? What you do is you get off the ladder because the ladder doesn’t bring happiness. In fact, it’s being perpetuated by marketers who want to keep you buying stuff that you don’t need and keep you in the trap of thinking you need.

More, more, more, more, more. Just a little more. Just a little better. Just. And you’ve experienced this. You’ve gone for something and then getting it doesn’t make you happy. Here’s the truth. We’ve been marketed a lie. This is not how you find happiness. The problem isn’t that you don’t have the job or the house or the degree. It’s how you feel about yourself right now. If you’re unhappy, like Heather is, getting more accomplishments or things will never make you happier.

In order to stop chasing the ladder, you need to start cultivating authentic happiness rather than beating yourself up with the whip to achieve more. You know, I shared earlier about how I felt the same fear that Dan did when my life was off track, when I was a lawyer and I could see the future. I mean, I was on the ladder, Chris, and I just bought our first house. I was in a law firm, had to bill a certain number of hours.

Then you become a senior associate and then you become a junior partner. Then you become a partner. Have a couple kids. Get a dog, renovate the kitchen.

We’re gonna live happily ever after. Now, luckily, within the first few weeks of being at that job, I knew it was a ladder that I didn’t want to climb. If you feel that way, please let this be a wake up call. Maybe you want to re listen to dance session or take a look at the workbook where we have some exercises designed to help you find real happiness and passion, but recognizing that you’re in the trap of going to the next thing and going to the next thing and going to the next thing.

That is a huge breakthrough. And the only way to get off the ladder is to realize that climbing it is not going to make you happy. Happiness only comes from within. And I want you to think about Heather for a moment. If you were coaching Heather, what would you tell her to do that would make her happier? The answer’s right there, isn’t it? She needs to start working on that damn business. She’s a try. She needs to put in the effort.

She needs to stop being paralyzed by fear, because if she were to start trying on her business and start cultivating a growth mindset, she’d be so proud of herself, she wouldn’t feel so stuck. The same is true for you, that happiness comes, that authentic sense of pride when you see yourself moving in a direction that your heart is tugging you, when you see yourself slowing down and quieting the fear by taking real control. It comes when you stop berating yourself in your head.

And you learn how to speak more kindly and more encouraging to yourself. That’s when you’re going to feel happier. There were seven major takeaways in Heather’s session. And so I want to just summarize them real quick before we jump into the next session. First of all, follow the fear wherever it is that you are stuck in your life. Just ask yourself, what am I afraid of and what do I do when I’m afraid? For Heather, it’s obvious she’s afraid of failing.

And what does she do? She does anything possible to not do anything. She focuses on being perfect. She tells herself not to try. She tells herself she’s going to hear a no. She talks negatively to herself. All of which paralyzes her and keeps her from doing anything. Second, the secret to mind control is body awareness. When you feel out of control, your body state changes before your mind even becomes aware of it. So again this week.

Pay attention to it as soon as your body shifts. You can start taking deep breaths. You can slow things down. You can settle your body and catch yourself before your mind starts to spiral. And don’t forget that 90 second emotional window that you got to play around with from Harvard Medical School. That’s pretty cool stuff. Now, third, little moments can have lasting impact. You developed coping mechanisms to deal with feeling out of control as a kid.

And those patterns still live within you today until you recognize them. And you start to intentionally replace them with ones that empower you. Fourth, you become self critical in an attempt to shield yourself from the criticism of others. Most of us learn this from our parents, but as adults, we keep these negative loops in our heads. It becomes a pattern or habit and talking to yourself negatively. That is a habit you need to break. And you’ve got to learn how to become more positive.

Fifth, your fate is not fixed. This is all of the stuff you just learned about fixed versus growth mindsets, your talents are no representation of whether or not you’re going to be a success. The only thing that determines your fate is the effort that you put in and you are 1000 percent in control of that. Sixth, if you want control, expect an O to get anything worthwhile in your life, you’re going to hit bumps along the way and you’re going to hear a lot of rejection.

So instead of letting the nose derail you, I want you to expect them. I want you to step up to the plate. I want you to swing. I want you to step up. I want you to do it again. Remember, Kevin Hart set the record three thousand six hundred seven. Can you do three thousand six hundred and eight? I think for his lifestyle and living your dreams, we could all do that. And finally, could you stop living the latter life, climbing the ladder of success that society has rammed down your throat doesn’t bring happiness or any real sense of control.

What will bring you real control is following the fear, slowing yourself down and taking real control of the actions that you need to take and the changes that you need to make in order to pursue the life that you want. In the last two sessions, we unpacked fear and how it triggers you in your mind. Now we’re going to step outside your body and focus on how fear can trigger you to act weird about physical things.

Let me give you a few examples. Have you ever been stressed out and so afraid that you didn’t open your mail for a month or maybe you’re fighting with your partner or there’s conflict in your home life? And so you spend all your energy rearranging the furniture every month? Or have you ever shopped and bought things that you don’t need so that you feel a temporary sense of control?

Or have you been so obsessive and you keep telling yourself as you keep pinning things on Pinterest.

If I could just get my mudroom done, my life would be so much better. Or perhaps your life may be so out of control that your bedroom is an absolute disaster. I mean, you haven’t even made your bed in months. Well, the woman you’re about to meet is so afraid to face the mess that her life has become that it’s triggering her to be obsessively controlling about her house, what’s in it, and even who’s allowed to come inside her house.

Now, she’s an extreme example. But what I want you to think about is where are you trying to gain control by focusing on stuff instead of taking a look in the mirror. As insane as it sounds, you know, when Chris and I were going through our worst moments financially, I would go to Wal-Mart and Target and I’d look around for things to buy.

I didn’t have any money to spend on things I didn’t need. What I should’ve been doing was looking for a job.

But I’ll tell you what.

Going to DSW, which stands for Designer Shoe Warehouse here in the United States and wandering the aisles and trying on shoes I couldn’t afford it made me feel normal and incontrol for 30 minutes at a time when I felt like my whole life was spinning out of control.

And this is super common, controlling your stuff, shopping for things you don’t need.

Not opening up mail because it’s a form of escape. So whether you’re blowing off steam by going online shopping or you’re organizing your spice rack instead of paying the bills or keeping your house in your appearance a certain way in order to present an image of an organized life, we all use our stuff as a form of fake control because it’s much easier to obsess over the kitchen than it is to do the work on your past.

I mean, it makes sense, doesn’t it?

And particularly in a world where there’s so much you can’t control, whether it’s the actions of other people, what your mother says, how your partner treats you, whether or not you’re going to get fired or what people are saying about you.

One thing you can always control is an inanimate object. I mean, they don’t talk back to you. You can walk into your closet and organize your shoes, and none of them are going to gossip about you or roll their eyes at you. And as you listen to this session, it would be really easy to judge how out of hand things have gotten for Rose.

But I want you to do something else instead. I want you to use her story to think about where are you being controlling about your stuff?

Where are you being weird about it? Are you weird about the way you manage your e-mails? Are you collecting shoes?

Are you shopping for that? Like, where are you doing this or what? Stress your fears. Are you avoiding because of it?

My name is Rosa. I’m from just outside Vancouver in British Columbia, Canada. I am divorced. I have three children, 1720 and 23 next week. And I’m a secondary teacher as a living.

Why don’t you tell me in your own words what your biggest fear is? My biggest fear is that what I see around me is actually who I really am. And it’s actually driving me crazy. I’m struggling with I’m going to call it declaring my physical environment at home, which I think is a reflection of an internal issue that I haven’t been able to break through. The you know, this isn’t me. Oh, my God. But this is what I see.

I don’t want to believe it. That’s me. And yet I haven’t moved past or figured out how to move quicker through it. It feels like. My biggest fear is that I guess the word is hopeless. There’s no hope. The marriage I was in wasn’t very good. Very verbally, not nice for lack of better terms. And one of the things that always came up in that was that there was always a mess, which I used to laugh at because there wasn’t a mess.

And I thought, you’re hilarious. How can you look at this? And then when a genuine hoarder’s episode came up. Oh, yeah. He would say enemies like, you know, Rosa, if it wasn’t for me.

This would be you you’d be on that show and I said, you’re absolutely ridiculous. Look around. So we have a great house. So I don’t know if that sort of stuck is what it for whatever reason, he left in 2012 and it’s been a slow accumulation of stuff. Mm hmm.

And I thought, you know, I’ll just look at something, you know? Yeah. OK, well, and then it’s to the point where I’m overwhelmed. I’m not yet at a Hoarders episode.

But for me, how far away are you from being one?

I think I’m about halfway there. Really? Yeah. And it’s very unsettling. It’s this is I look at it and I’m like, this is not how I want to live. This is not who I am. I wanted a house that all my friends would just bring kids or friends and, you know, it’d be the house to hang in.

When’s the last time you’ve invited somebody in your home?

Oh, my goodness. We’re talking eight years leased. That’s a long time. It’s too long.

And now my kids are older even. And I’m like, the sad part for me now is that I’ll say, you know, I’m on it.

It’s not that I’m not working on it now. I am. But I feel like I’m such a turtle about it. So I have this one covered, for example, in the cupboard door fell off and I’m trying to get it on and all this. And I said, oh, screw it. So I went and I did all of got new dishes and everything. So that cupboard looks great. Well, it’s been that way for the ten years.

So once I get it done.

So it’s like a little Pinterest board, right, Rashin? Yeah. So on beacon of light going to let’s all go into the kitchen.

I’ll go. I’m it’s possible.

Then I’ll look at the others. That is like, oh my God.

Do you believe it’s possible. I want to say yes, but I feel like I’m hesitating because I do it and then. I want to know. I’ve never been in your house. Yeah. So can you take me to the room? You’re the most embarrassed or you feel the most hopeless around and describe what the room looks and feels like right now.

We’re going to my bedroom. I describe it as a dorm room of some student who doesn’t have the time, even the care to take care of anything.

So my even my bed, which is interesting, is like I’ll sleep on one side of it and I’ll pile things onto the other. And then if I have to change the bed, I take it off the mat and I read pile the stuff back.

It’s just slop fill. And so I have a pile that I look at and I just go, wow, what? Like, where do I even start? And I have this perfectionism thing about what I do too, which is sort of funny because if you look at my binders for work there. Yeah. Packable.

Well, that’s because that’s what you’re showing the outside world. Mm hmm. Well, and my covered in my kitchen.

Yeah. The one that’s open. The one that’s open.

Oh that’s a good point. The one that’s open. That’s so interesting. You already use the analogy which was turtle. Yeah. So when a turtle sticks its head out. Right. That’s what you manage.

But you live inside the shell like you’re the turtle that is sucked itself into the shell. So nobody can say, oh my.

Well, let’s go back in time and tell me about either the first time when you were little. When you remember being really afraid. I must have been like eight or nine months. Okay, well, you know, you need to know, learn how to start doing chores. And here’s the room. This is how you do it. And my guess is I really didn’t want to do the thing. So I grabbed it and I just sort of did a half assed job, if you will, of sweeping.

And she goes, she was just screaming at me like, what are you doing? That’s not what I show. That’s not. You can’t do anything about that. Let me do it.

You remember what it felt like in your body. You’re wiggling your just nervous bubbling. Yeah, like a nervous bubbling, like a like like you’re gonna fall or something.

And what’s happening? Your body’s. Things are bubbling. I’m upset that she’s upset. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember another time feeling that way? OK. Forty nine. So if I. Why is this why, why? What’s making of that? I remember my dad trying to encourage us in school, and he made the comment. Our backgrounds are telling. And he made the comment that if anybody came home with straight A’s. Give us a trip to Italy.

Maybe I’m a sensitive kid or whatever. But he said that and I was a pretty good student, like a solid B.. That kind of thing. Right.

I cared about my stuff, but that was an incentive for me. I’m like, wow. Wow. Be cool. So I worked my ass off in grade nine and I came home. There were eight courses and I came home with seven days. Was my best report card ever. And I was so proud of that thing. I didn’t get the eight. And the first words out of my dad’s mouth is, what’s that be doing there? And I thought, Phuket.

The Phuket is a coping mechanism. All right. That allows you to not feel the pain of not being acknowledged for what you do do.

I did ask him as an adult not too long ago. Remember that time? Why did you say that? And what did he say? He goes, wow, you know, I needed to encourage you guys to do better and to do well in school. And maybe my other siblings would have taken it differently. But I didn’t. And even as an adult, sometimes he’ll say something and I’ll get a bit. And I’ll mention it to one of my siblings and they’ll just look at me.

Did you just meet Dad?

Like, how is this a surprise? You know, you can I know that in your head.

But what I’m going to get you to understand today is that fear is an experience that happens in your body. There’s nothing intellectual about it.

It’s primal. It’s instinctual. It is. It’s something that gets triggered in the way that your body senses something. And so we’ve already got two fundamental experiences in terms of how your body trained itself to read situations. And one of them was what you described as this bubbling up in your body when your mom said you can’t do it. And started angrily sweeping around in our brains. We can look back on it and be like, wow. I mean, she had six kids.

She probably had a long day. She was probably frustrated.

Yeah, right on day. But. In the body of a nine year old. You don’t ever forget that feeling of getting in trouble. That feeling of separation from your mom, where you feel like you’ve done something wrong. And even though, you know, she still loves you and you know you’re not really in trouble. There is something that happens in your body when that sort of tingling happens, where it hits something very primal in all of us.

You get in your body when you came home and you walk in the door and you’re holding that report card and you got seven A’s for crying out loud. Like, can you remember what it feels like in your body to be proud, to be excited to share this? Oh, before that, yeah. And. Oh, I was just giddy. Yeah, I was excited. And I was going to open up a present. Yeah, of course I like it, you know, it didn’t even matter about the eighth one.

Of course. Right. It didn’t matter about the trip thing. I was like, oh, this is gonna be that, you know? And I remember the Phuket thing was like, well, why? And that’s it. I don’t care about pleasing anybody.

And then the irony is, it’s probably what I’m still trying to do. A thousand percent. Right. This is why you’re stuck. Because you’re not dealing with an intellectual problem. You’re dealing with a physical one, a physical one, fear we have so much marginal, no fear lives in your body and it’s triggering something that got programmed in you a long ass time ago.

So tell me about your marriage. Volatile, in a word. How old were you when you got married? Twenty six. OK, well, what happened? Jaw dropping things that I would say. How? Tell me one. OK. So near the end, I think 2010. I stayed in the home, refusing to leave for two years, finally left in twenty twelve. And during that time, didn’t think anything of contributing monetarily to the household at all.

As a matter of fact, at one point and he wasn’t talking to me, I wasn’t talking him, I was trying to anyway, my son came up to me with a five dollar bill.

And he said here, I said, what’s this for? He said, Dad said to give it to you. He wants to watch a paved for shore movie on the TV. And I looked at the five dollar bill and I put it in one of those page protector’s. And I still have it somewhere in that room as a reminder. What we’re I don’t know. My room somewhere in a drawer. Why? I don’t know. Yes, you do.

Well, at the time I put it there, I thought this is a reminder. Of what this person is capable of. Why the fuck is it in your bedroom? I don’t know. You think I know? Yeah. I came across it the other day and I just I almost said, you know, what am I. So you think all this stuff that’s stacked all over the place? I’m trying to. Yeah.

I’ve gotten rid of a lot of stuff. I’ve shredded a lot of things. And I think that is still sitting there. Well, let’s let’s.

So you guys were married for 18 years. Yeah. It’s like walking. And how was there. Good. At any point. I would never have used those words to describe them. Why did you get married? Because on the charismatic side, I guess it was like us sweep me off my feet type of idea. Right. Mm hmm. Like, he sold everything over there to come over here. When’s the first time that you remember feeling? This is not a good idea.

I am. Was there something specific that was said they worked in or works in construction.

And I remember when he’d get this way, I’d say, you know, this is not a construction site. It’s a home and their children in here. And for whatever reason, he was upset and he came upstairs and called me the C word. And I looked to them and I said, and at that time.

So when he said those that word, the C. Yeah. Let’s go back to your body. Do you remember. Was it. What happened and what you felt. Just a lot of hurt. I don’t think there is any nervousness. More like angry. But angry and upset. I remember crying and thinking, this is total B.S.. Like, why do you say that to me? Yeah. Not as someone that cares about someone, say that to me.

And how does someone do that with his daughter in the bedroom downstairs and his son’s in the kitchen meters away? And and so I remember saying really loudly to him, that’s not OK. I said, this is not a construction site and that’s not OK. You don’t say that to anyone. And then in that moment, it was instant. I thought, there’s nothing I can do about what he’s doing. I was more concerned at that moment. What my kids were witnessing, listening to and all of that.

My boys were sitting at the counter in the kitchen and they were literally maybe three yards away. So I turned around quickly and I went to them and and I said, boys, I said, what you just heard come out of your father’s mouth should never be repeated to any woman. I don’t care how angry you are at them. How is that? And as I said that to them, my ex walked behind me and said to the boys, You do if she is.

There were lots of those kinds of moments. Wow. There’s a lot there. You know, you mentioned earlier that your ex-husband called you messy. Yeah. So how did you go from having just a pile of stuff on your desk?

Right. Too slowly. Yeah.

Go out of control. I don’t know that. As I’m listening to what’s becoming very clear, yes, and you already said it was the turtle reference, that you have two lives and you have the life outside that house where you stick your neck out and people know, you know, who you are and the life inside the house. Where you’re trapped, where you’re hiding, where your very conflicted about who you are. And where the fear is very present, I mean, I think the real you is the one that is in the house because you’re really struggling.

And that’s that’s scary. Here’s why I say that, because I hear a lot of people say, oh, I want to be the real me and, you know, I’ve got to break free and be the real me. Well, the fact is, the real you is somebody who is a mess in terms of the physical space and is afraid. So I’m the effed up.

That’s the reason why I think it’s important to own it.

Is because pretending it’s not you isn’t working, being worried that there’s a different person out side of your house than the one inside and the real me is outside, and I got to know the real you as somebody who’s afraid. The real you is somebody who is messy. The real you is somebody who is having trouble getting started. Doing the things that you need to do. And that’s OK. Yes, starting is a big one. And just recently, I’ve been starting to even talk about it or even come in my current relationship.

I’ve been in for two years. He hasn’t stepped foot in the house.

I’m not surprised. And he’s a wonderful man. And he’s like, you know, I can help you with that light fixture. Just, you know, and I said, no. I said, you’re gonna walk in, turn around and walk out.

He goes, there’s nothing you can do that’s gonna make me walk out. I’m so embarrassed. I’m embarrassed. And then what? In retrospect, I’m embarrassed that I’m living like that with that kind of mess and I haven’t gotten on with it. What happens if you’re able to bring what’s your boyfriend’s name? John. What does it feel like thinking about your house being clean and John walking in the door? Would be nice. What do you get by keeping things the way that they are?

Who do kept keeping things? Maintaining this struggle. Tell me more about Stringfield like this struggle. I’ve I’ve said before, you know, it’s like, oh well, here I go again, learning the hard way. And it’s like, no, I’m it’s almost like I’m trying to prove that that’s the way I do things.

I can’t do it the easy way. I think it’s something of more. Simple, honestly, simple. I do. I think it’s really simple. And here’s what I think. I believe that what happens with fear is that you. You experience fear in your body when something’s about to happen. And you’ve described two very fundamental experiences that happened to you when you were little. And you’ve described a bubbling up a number of times. Mm hmm.

I bet if we were to sit here for a couple hours and go through a bunch of different memories that you have, whether it’s in school or with friends or with your parents or with your siblings when you were about to get in trouble or when you got yelled at or just when you were in a situation where you were nervous or on edge, that that bubbling feeling was there.

Mm hmm. And what happened is that you learned. For a very young age, we all do this, that when that bubbling feeling comes up, freeze or when that bubbling feeling comes up. Stop doing what you’re doing. Or when that bubbling feeling comes up, just just make things nice.

Don’t don’t don’t like people. Yeah. Avoid the conflict. Avoid the conflict.

Now, the interesting thing about life is that there is conflict both outside with other people and conflict internally.

And so if you’re in a situation in your home where you have a bunch of things that you need to do, like, for example, the fact that you’re freaking bedroom is starting to look like an episode of Hoarders, the fact that John can’t come over to your house because you’re embarrassed by all this. The fact that you can’t have John in your bed because you’ve got a mound of clothing in the place where he should be sleeping with you.

When you think about getting rid of this stuff, when you pull out that plastic sleeve with the five dollar bill in it and you look at that thing and you think about getting rid of it.

What is happening in your body? Angry. Angry that that was the state of things, and then I just say, OK, well, fuck it. Fuck it. That’s my Freese’s, isn’t it? If you’re in your bedroom and you’re looking at the pile of clothes where John is supposed to be and you get frustrated with yourself because it’s there and you have to deal with it, and that makes you feel like a failure. And so then you either start to get nervous and bubble things up or you say effort and you turn around.

I always thought about fears, things that you think about. And when you think about fear as a feeling in your body that’s trying to warn you, it’s visceral. It’s visceral. And all of the research shows that it happens before your mind even starts to explain what’s happening. And so you have two responses to failure. One is I’m bad. And the other is a few. Yes. What did you just see for yourself? What did I see?

Yeah. Like, why are you getting upset? I feel like when the tears come, that’s when the nail got it. Is that a good thing? Yeah. What happens for most of us, and this is why you’re trapped. Rosa, is that that visceral reaction is coming up in your life? Yes.

Until the day you die, it’ll come. Yes. You’re either gonna get that bubbly thing or you’re gonna get the F you thing. Mm hmm.

And when it comes up now and that bubbly thing happens or the F you thing happens, what’s really awesome is you have the ability to go. Wait a minute. There’s that thing that I do now. What do I want to do?

So instead of letting the bubbly thing come up and frees you. And now you have no control. And then you go from one room where you’re about to confront the five dollar bill and that bubbly feeling comes up. The old reaction would be to just freeze. The old reaction is to go f you and walk out of the room. And the new thing that you’re going to be capable of is to have that bubbly, visceral response happen or the few visceral response happen and to choose something different.

And so one of the pieces that I want to go back to, because I think it’s something that you think about, but I don’t want you to leave our conversation without really seeing what you’re doing to yourself. OK, OK. So we’ve talked about the fact that in your past and this is true for all of us. You’ve got a bunch of experiences where. You either started bubbling up inside because you were worried about disappointing somebody or, you know, you got the incident with the seven A’s and the one B and then you get the F you and then you can start to see that reaction everywhere.

You had a husband who reinforced both. Yes. I think there’s a connection between how he treated you and how you’re treating yourself. So he’s gone and I’ve taken his place. Oh, my God, that’s awful. So part of what happens when you’re in an emotionally abusive relationship. And you start to walk on eggshells is you become very self-critical as a coping mechanism. So that you. That being harsh on yourself is a way to make sure you don’t drop a ball.

Right. And you don’t get in trouble. I think what’s happening is for 18 years, you were very used to being crazy, self-critical, to try to anticipate everything so that no stone was unturned and he had nothing to complain or be upset about yet. And that you started to internalize. That you are a mess and that you are a failure because I have to do all this stuff, otherwise I wouldn’t be. He also said it. Yeah.

And then you finally got rid of them. Yes. And I’m still doing it. Yeah. And the reason why it’s so hard to escape, even though you can see it. You can think about it. You can describe it right? The reason why it’s so hard to escape is because it’s getting triggered by the visceral stuff. OK, Mel, so so what do I do? I just sit and fill it out. Now kick it the hell out of your body.

What are you talking about?

No. So so what you have to do, especially when you start to unpack and we’ve got two things.

We’ve got the bubbling up in your body and we’ve got that feeling of f you. Right. Okay. Those are the two signals that are. In your history, it’s the two signals that I think are in your day to day life. If you follow those two signals, it will lead you in the right direction, because what happens in our bodies is if you’re facing uncertainty or if you’re facing something that’s confronting or if you’re facing something that is going to contain judgment and for you cleaning up, let me tell you how that contains judgment.

Second, you pull open a drawer. There is stuff in there from your past. Right. And as you start to go. Nope, throw it in the dumpster. Throw it in the dumpster, throw it. I don’t need this. Do you know the one person that’s going to be judging what’s going on? It’s you.

Why do I store this five dollar bill? Why have I kept this pilot close? This isn’t gonna make a difference anyway, even if I get an A in my bedroom. I’ve got seven more rooms to go through. Right. And there’s gonna be a B somewhere in here. F you and you stop. Doesn’t matter anyway, doesn’t matter how hard I work. Yeah. In your body, you’re gonna have to retrain how you respond to it. So what I want to give you out of this is the wisdom and the body awareness and the fear awareness to basically say, OK, I’m going to take on and commit to doing something that I have not been able to do since I got married, and that is clean the damn house and make myself proud of it.

Right, OK. And get it to a point where John is coming over and he’s not coming over with a blindfold on and it’s not coming over to change the light bulb.

Right. He’s coming over for dinner. Right. And he’s coming over to sleep. Over. We need everything that you don’t need out of that house. Yeah. Everything. We need anything that reminds you of your ex out of that house. Everything. You know, when you ask me, why don’t you get rid of the five dollar bill? Well, we’re not the five dollar bill. But, you know, a lot of this stuff sort of thing, some of that stuff I’m thinking I need to sell to recoup.

No. So I’ve been trying to sell stuff. No, no, no. No. Give it away, yes, give it away. Are you kidding? What you’re going to get in return is invaluable. Your freedom. Space. You’re in a crack open that shell that you suck yourself in to get a freaking dumpster and get your neat.

What do you know? You know, John said once about the garage because he’s been in the garage. OK. And he said, Rosa, why don’t you pick one day? And right away, I got that fear, I believe in mine. Yeah. And as he said one day. Why? Because I thought this is gonna take a day.

I need to organize everything. And a little. Exactly. And he said, pick one day. And I said, John. I said, you know how much money sitting in his garage like this is? This was really. He said, listen, no one wants your shit pack three big things.

Yes. This was his idea. Pick three big things. And the rest, he goes, I’ll come over with my truck. I love it. Take it away or donate it. You decide. Love it. Only pick three things. I love it. I love him.

And I’m like, oh, my God. The bubbling up. I couldn’t do it. I said, No, no, I can’t do it like that. Yes, you can.

Yeah, I probably could. Yes, you can. But that’s OK.

But see. What are you learning about fear.

So I went back. OK. So let’s put you. Let’s put you in the future, because I love John. Okay. Yeah. John in charge. Yeah. And you say to John. OK. I will pick three things in the garage. And you let them take everything else away.

I need to leave the country. What’s happening in your body is the dumpster for the pickup truck pulls up and John starts marching shit out of that car.

Oh, my God.

I just like it’s almost like I can’t watch. OK, it’s like I feel like, you know, I see I feel angry now. Great. I feel angry, like, you know, who were you to tell me that that goes in that space? Like, why are you deciding for you? He has to decide.

You’re holding on. I’m a control freak. No, not necessarily. I think that this is all about you not feeling comfortable with how uncertainty triggers fear in your body.

That’s it. So it’s really simple, comfortable. You don’t have to get comfortable. You have to live through it. Do you have your cell phone with you? I do. Well, you look good in a good way. OK. I want you to turn on your phone. What are you feeling in your body? Describe it for me. Nerves. OK. Where where is it? Is it in your stomach, in your throat, in your chest?

All in here. What’s in here? The whole body part. OK. OK, let’s try calling. We’re going to call and ask for help right now. Put him on speaker.

If he answers. And Speaker Boehner.

Hey, you’re on speaker with Mel Robbins. I’m in the studio. So Mel’s making me call and ask you for your help in clearing the garage.

And what are you agreeing to? OK, I’m agreeing to pick several things. Everything else goes in the dumpster. OK. Now she’s crying. No, no, no. So we’re talking about how fear is stuck in her body. What’s happening in your body right now? Rosa, I’m upset. Why? Because I think there’s some value in some of that stuff. Ship is organized. I know you’re saying bullshit.

John says the same. So what’s the soonest day that you can do this? I think you have to the day after tomorrow. Fabulous. OK, good. Oh. John, I love you. We’ll call you and we’re going to we’re going to call you the day that this is happening so that we can find out what’s happening. Okay. Awesome. Thank you, John. Thanks, John. I think. OK. Yeah. See, I told you his leg.

He’s amazing. Oh, and so are you.

Now, what’s happening? Because. Oh, I guess you just is not. Yes. It’s going to feel amazing. And when you start feeling yourself, go out of control and you flip yourself back and then you want to go say f you to John and fight with him about the dumpster.

I want you to say, well, wait a minute. There’s that body thing that Mel was talking about. It’s taking over. I need to stop and I need to choose. What do I want? I want to feel free. And it is going to feel amazing, amazing to walk into that garage and have it be clear, OK, I’m bringing a box of tissues.

OK. Bingo. I’m proud of you so much. Wow. Wasn’t that incredible when she got on the phone with John? I think John may have been a little shell shocked, but I’m really proud of Rosa for having the courage to do it live. She did not know that was coming. One of the most striking things to me from Rosea session is that she’s so clearly living a double life.

And the easiest way to live your life is to just be yourself wherever you are.

So if you present yourself one way to the outside world, yet things are falling apart for you internally.

Please, please let this coaching session be a wakeup call that you need to get control of your own life.